WWE superstar Shayna Baszler smashing stereotypes into submission

And the 40-year-old former mixed martial arts star told Arabian Business the challenges she has faced and overcome throughout her career can also apply to females operating in the business world – although she stopped short of advocating the use of her trademark pseudo-chicken wing submission in the boardroom.

In an exclusive and wide ranging interview, Baszler talks about growing up in the sport, changing perceptions and influencing the new generation of fighters. She also reveals how they can “change the world” through the medium of wrestling.

What was it like watching wrestling as a young girl growing up? What attracted you to the sport, which was a male-dominated sport at the time?

It’s kind of crazy how much the scene for women in wrestling has changed and the fact that all of us are currently working for the WWE in this time when women are wrestling, whereas there was a time before where it was a different feel – they were managers or a sideshow, so it’s cool to think that there was this group of us that were watching wrestling wanting to wrestle when the most common example for us was to be a manager or a valet or something along those lines.

For me personally I think it had a lot to do with growing up doing amateur wrestling and martial arts, which are both also male dominated, especially at that time. Obviously like everything else, it’s progressed to include more women.

By the time I was thinking about wanting to wrestle it was already so common to me to be involved in male-dominated sports and activities, just because my family comes from an amateur wrestling background. I grew up around it, I grew up doing it and I think I started young enough that I didn’t even realise male and female yet. Then by the time I was old enough to realise that, I had been around it so much that it was just ‘well yeah, but I can still do this’ sort of thing. It’s cool to think of the way it’s progressed for everyone.

Was there someone who you tried to replicate?

Obviously I liked the big characters that every kid liked. I think there was a long time where Ultimate Warrior was my favourite. Then as I did get older, Lita, I think a lot of girls would say, she was someone that to me was probably the first woman wrestler that I watched. Not only did she wrestle and do cool moves and wrestle with the guys, but she dressed really cool I thought.

She was still sexy but it wasn’t the stereotypical look of the girls. To a kid, I thought she was cool and she wrestles pretty awesome.

Obviously there’s more female wrestlers now and young girls will be looking towards yourself thinking, ‘when I grow up I want to be like you’. How does that feel?

It’s crazy to think about still, because I still think I’m just a kid from the Midwest. But I have had, more so than the actual kids stopping me, I’ve had people tell me that their daughter, or their niece or young girl in their life has mentioned that they look up to me.

I’m not saying this in a way to insult myself, but I don’t have the stereotypical look of some of the women superstars, with bikini photoshoots and sexual appeal on that end. I think there’s a lot of young girls out there that see that and think, that’s not them. That was me, of course, not in a way that upset me, but it just didn’t identify with me.

I’ve been told there’s a lot of girls that look at me and see that she doesn’t wear a whole bunch of make-up, she doesn’t do these photoshoots, she’s like me. Even amongst girls looking at the example of women wrestlers, I think I appeal to an even more niche vain along those lines.

When you were growing up, what challenges did you have to overcome in a male-dominated sport?

I definitely think there was some proving yourself. I think a lot of guys, especially on the wrestling mat or in martial arts gyms, for lack of a better term, wanted to ‘show you’ that you didn’t have it. So maybe they would go a little harder on you.

On top of that I think it’s very humbling at first for males you are training with to lose to a girl. Until they get it in their head that on the mat there’s no difference, that’s what martial arts and amateur wrestling were made for, to be this equaliser for a smaller and weaker opponent to be able to equalise against someone stronger. I think when they got that in their head it was fine.

I think that I had to learn pretty quickly that I had to not complain at all. Even less than a regular male might complain. There’s a quote from a female fighter Amanda Buckner that really resonates with me as far as wrestling and everything. She said: “If someone watches a male fight, they’ll say ‘that guy is bad at fighting’, but if someone watches a female fight, they’ll say ‘see look, women are bad at fighting’.”

I think knowing that double standard, rather than trying to fight it, taking what you’re given and still proving your worth is not something that’s easy to do and I think a lot of women have had to do that.

If the guys go out and have a boring match, they’ll say, ‘wow, those guys are boring’, but if the girls go out and have a boring match, it’s ‘see, women’s wrestling is boring’.

I think knowing that you have this weight of representing everyone on your shoulders, I think realising that helps to represent that.

It’s fair to say female wrestling pushes boundaries. How does it feel to be part of that and how can that help change society?

I think that it’s a really special thing. Professional wrestling is in a particularly special place because it is entertainment. I’ve been really blessed to be active in this time where people watch it for entertainment and they know.

Let’s take MMA where I came from. There will be a lot of people who will just turn off, they can’t watch women fight, it’s uncomfortable for them or whatever their preconceived notions might be about females fighting, they just can’t watch it and they won’t.

Even as progressive as women in mixed martial arts has been. But I think in a professional wrestling sense they can watch these, which are stories about fights. Where MMA is the fight, pro wrestling is the story about the fight.

I think people are more willing to watch women in professional wrestling because it’s not a fight per se, so they can watch it for its entertainment. Even getting them to watch can open doors and start changing their mind about things.

That’s something I remember Triple H talking to us about, it’s about just getting the door to crack open. Some people won’t even open the door to check it out, no matter how much you say to them. But if you can just crack the door open and let them get a peek, then they start seeing and they want to see more and they’ll open the door themselves.

Would you say that there’s more pressure on female wrestlers compared to males? And how do you cope with the pressure?

I don’t know if it adds more pressure, I think performing and wrestling, especially in the WWE is a high pressure situation no matter what and you know when you’re going out there you’re thinking definitely about the match and for me personally I’m not digging through my brain adding more pressure on the history of the moment or what boundaries are being pushed.

After the match I get emotional because I realise all that stuff happens, but I think for me through all my competitive years and being on these big stages, the WWE is no different. I think I’ve learned to accept that that nervousness, that feeling of pressure, I say it a lot right behind the curtain to whoever is next to me, I’m like ‘man, there’s no other thing in the world that feels like this, what we’re feeling right now’. People might dream and study to be a lawyer their whole life, but everyone’s wondered if they could hit someone, everyone has. Maybe everyone hasn’t dreamed about standing in front of a judge and making an argument, but everyone’s been that mad.

I think that just taking that moment as a part of the ride. It might not be for everyone, but I found that the more I tried to fight it and not be nervous and try to calm down, I think it makes it worse for me.

I think even if you have your dream job, there’s parts of the job that are uncomfortable. You’re lifting weights and your muscles start burning, that’s a bad feeling but you accept it as part of working out and I think those nerves and that pressure before you step out of the curtain is part of the ride I’ve had to learn to accept otherwise it’s crippling.

How does being a professional sports star marry up with the business world? Where do sport and business meet?

I think that’s a thing I learned early on with wrestling and sports in general is discipline. Even if you have your dream job, there’s parts that you don’t like. I don’t like setting an alarm and getting up every morning to work out, but it’s just a discipline that’s been ingrained in me, that I love this I’ve got to do this.

I think taking that into the business world, there’s parts that you don’t like, but I think if you love this, these are the things you’ll do that are part of the job and you’ll do it because you love the bigger picture.

You can go on and on about work ethic and, being in the WWE, stepping through that curtain, you have to turn on, you have to be your character, you have to be the TV you. Sure it’s a little bit the real me, but it’s like the volume’s turned up.

I think that’s very applicable in the business world, you get on a call or you have to negotiate, you have to know how to turn on. I don’t think people realise, there’s times when I’ve gone on that TV screen and you don’t know what we’ve gone through that day. It could be a parent got sick, your dog isn’t feeling well, someone went through a break-up, but we still have to step through the curtain and be on. The person watching TV doesn’t care about what happened at home before I left.

I think being able to put that aside to get work done and separate it is a massive help when it comes to the business side of things.

WWE in the Middle East is huge. How exciting is it growing the support base for young females in the region?

It’s amazing. It’s crazy to thing that there could be a young girl watching me on TV and think ‘man I want to do that’. Because I think especially, we’re in the United States and I think being removed from it most of the time, when it’s presented before us, when we go to the Middle East and do shows, when we see it, then it becomes a thing where it’s like ‘oh yeah, this is a massive step’, or an example of what they can be.

We talk about how it’s empowering for the little girls that are watching, but it’s empowering to us too. To think of the possibilities. When I was a kid thinking I wanted to be a professional wrestler, you’re too young at the time to think you want to be an example of who people can be and what they can do.

It’s so cool to be able to step back and see that, through the medium of professional wrestling, we can change the world. I think because we only see baby steps now, we won’t realise until hindsight just how much of a difference that has made.